I laughed a lot, and cried a little, with today’s guest Kate McGill (Thanks so much to Kina Grannis for connecting us). Kate is a sincere and delightful badass of musical magnificence and podcast inspiration via her songwriting skills and her We Dive Deeper podcast!

We ramble through many topics, from our struggles to eat well to how Kate has grieved and processed her mother’s recent death. As you’ll hear in the intro, while I was editing this I realised that I laughed a lot in the recording, and that is one of Kate’s gifts for sure, to bring joy, whether exploring shadows or light.

One of the fun things about this episode is how many questions Kate asked ME, clearly she runs a podcast ?.

Some of the things we chat about:

  • Diet impacting energy and how hard it is to eat healthily on tour or road trips
  • Heartbreak (so much) and her new song ‘Unable’
  • What to say when someone has lost someone
  • Kate’s experience of the sudden and unexpected death of her mum, going deep into grief and how having patrons gave her the space to mourn
  • Repeating the patterns laid out for us by our parents and how hard that is to change (but possible)
  • An unexpected story about my brother Josh and Kate McGill
  • Why starting small is important

Kate McGill 0:00
Do you believe that they are doing the best that they possibly can? And you can only ever answer yes really like even if people are disappointing you and keep messing up in their brains in their lives, they are doing the best that they can.

Nate Maingard 0:16
That's the truth and so are you and it's so okay to remember that it's okay to really feel. Feel every little bit.

Nate Maingard 0:29
The lovely voice you just heard was Katie McGill, who is today's featured guest. She is herself a phenomenal musician, songwriter, podcast host. She has a podcast called we dive deeper, which I will link in the show notes and as always, lots of links in the show notes. And her podcast is basically doing the same thing as mine. We're just trying to tell the truth as courageously and humbly and authentically as possible. And her format is amazing and she has emerged just go check it out. interview some of the brightest people around and and it's just amazing. I talked about it briefly in this episode with her that I when I first came across her podcast I heard about Kate as a recommendation from the lovely Kino Grannis who was my guest a few episodes ago. And Keenan was like you should definitely I think it happened on Twitter where Kate was talking about that episode and I saw Kate and then I checked her stuff. I was like, Oh my gosh, you need to be on the podcast and so that's my storey. Yeah, she's we chatted about beautiful, wonderful, varied things, everything from the most mundane and ordinary of human experiences like how to eat healthfully like and how hard that is to her mother passing away last year and how she has grieved and how she has been unable to grieve by her patrons and so many other things just really, I realised when I was editing this that I spent a lot of my time laughing in this episode, and laughing in a way of just just pure Joy overflowing and I realised that that's one of the gifts that Kate brought to me was just really joy that just hearing her speak and interacting with her and the storeys were told and it just every time no matter how deep or not just deep but how painful or sad it got, it always turned came around. It was like in that darkest night there was always the dawn that followed. And so yeah, thank you, Kate, for an amazing conversation. I have put links to all the a lot of the things we talked about as many as I can into the show notes. So please always go and check that out. Just naked with nate.com forward slash Kate McGill, otherwise just naked with nate.com. That's the easiest. And you'll find links to all the things there. As always, thank you so much to everyone who has been listening. I really appreciate you and I so love hearing from you. There was been comments there have been things unfolding things happening. It's always wonderful and I love it so much. So I actually share two of my favourite comments, which were both about the lily lebow episode. Which was just last week's one. And I just love them so much that I've shared them at the end of this episode anonymously. And yeah, just thank you to the wonderful humans who left me those inspiring comments, really your comments keep me going like they keep me remembering a line that when I read them, I just feel so charged and excited and just reminded that this has value and it matters and it's it's improving people's lives even in some little way. And that is worth doing no matter what. Thank you. And if you feel the value in this and you want to help out to make it happen, this is currently what it will hopefully always be a labour of pure love. I love doing this podcast, and it takes a huge amount of time and I don't make any extra money from it. So if you want to help pay me to make this podcast if you feel that it's worth a cup of coffee a month or however much you choose, go to naked with nate.com Click the become a patron button. If you can't afford to pledge but you still want to help please go to that same link and click the review button, or share it with your friends. All those wonderful things help. So thank you to all the community who are making this possible. Thank you to Haley who recently played it on Patreon. You rocked my world. And yeah, that's it. I'm just delighted to be here. Delighted to share KT with you. Please enjoy it. I'll see you on the other side. And thank you for getting naked with Nate. First of all, thank you so much for coming on this little internet box with me. I really appreciate it. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. So cool. I it's weird. I think you are one of the people who I have sort of he met internet met and then had on the podcast the soonest after, which is awesome. So congrats to you.

Kate McGill 4:43
Yeah, I mean, I've just got bags of free time. So I've just been as ever to talk to anyone at any point of the day.

Nate Maingard 4:51
Like Yes, can we have a conversation is

Kate McGill 4:53
already indication in the day

Nate Maingard 4:57
this is actually a good entry point because I've been curious to ask you as a fellow creator of musical things, and a podcast, who works for yourself and does it on the inter webs. Do you? Do you get out much?

Kate McGill 5:13
No, no, I don't. But to be honest, I don't want me and me and my best friend's husband were talking about this the other day, and it was like a Lazy Sunday and we were hung over was eating crap food. And he was just itching to get out of the house had been like 10 minutes and he's like, the sun shining, I need to get out. And I was like, I couldn't think of anything worse than getting out of the house. I would say my one of my favourite things is that I am just, I've created such a home for myself here that I don't want to leave. So Monday to Friday, I don't really get it. I'm happy as Larry. I mean, when I you know, you get outside, you get in the sun and you're like, oh, okay, I see why people like this. This is good. Yeah, if I can avoid it, I will.

Nate Maingard 5:58
That's fantastic. I so appreciate that. I've I feel like I'm somewhere on that spectrum as well because my sweetheart Carly, she gets kind of Cabin Fever within a day or two and and even today we would we had a lot of errands this morning driving around and we've been driving around a lot just recently we've got a lot going on and and she was saying I saw just so nice to get out the house that I kind of went quiet. I was like I really like being in the house.

Kate McGill 6:23
I wonder if that's because we're a certain type of human being I don't know I'm not very like adventurous I'm not really an outdoorsy kind of let's go climb mountains and explore type girl I don't know about you.

Nate Maingard 6:37
I'm not sure what type of girl I am yet. I'm still working on that.

Kate McGill 6:41
You've got great hair.

Nate Maingard 6:42
Thank you very much and on my face as well. I'm that one of those very fortunate bearded ladies. And I actually have my my gender on Facebook set as her or she just because I hate boxes. And I think that's someone once said to me when I they found that I was said like I really don't like Star science because it's like you trying to box people into the top boxes and and then they said what starts on you said Aquarius and they said, Oh, that's so Aquarian of you. Your frustration, but no to to answer your question around the outdoorsy stuff I actually am. But I feel very I feel torn into in Twain by my sort of combating desires where one part of me loves this being inside and on the internet and doing geeky techie things and quietly hidden away from the world. But the other part of me gets so much out of literally climbing mountains and surfing and diving and catching my own food and having this very intensely wild experience. So I'm trying to make them friends because I've been feeding the sort of indoor side for a long time. So

Kate McGill 7:49
right I need to take a leaf from your book, I think and just because like I said, once you actually do get out there, you're like, Damn, this is good. Why don't I push myself to do it, but This, there's some home comforts and convenience for me. I'm just convenience queen. And if I can have everything that I want, know and love around me, then I'm like, I don't need to go anywhere. I'm comfortable, good. But sometimes you need to be uncomfortable and climb a mountain,

Nate Maingard 8:16
right? I mean, I just finished a 10 day wilderness survival training course with Carly. We did it together. It was so much harder than I, if I had known how hard it was before I would have been like, No, I'm comfortable. And I'm, I'm going to stay that way. But it was really all the boundaries being pushed out in all directions. So

Kate McGill 8:36
Wow, what made you want to do that?

Nate Maingard 8:38
It was a part of this, this desire, knowing that I want to engage that side of myself more and yet, when the opportunities arise, I'm so often like, No, I think I'll just watch Netflix. And so Carly, actually, she runs like rewilding retreats. She has a company called the wild love and she does really rewilding for women and these beautiful, amazing self empowerment retreats and everything. And she I know she should you totally it's anytime come hang out

Kate McGill 9:11
I'll ask for more info after.

Nate Maingard 9:14
Yeah, totally. I'll put it in the show notes, dear listeners

Kate McGill 9:17

Nate Maingard 9:20
and, you know, she had these people who run these wilderness courses coming on the retreat, but she had to cancel for various reasons and, and she paid this deposit and they were like, Well, why don't you use that deposit instead to come on this amazing course we're doing and when I read about it, I was like, I want to do that too. And so we did it. And it was all the things it's like what you're saying of knowing that I want to get outside more when I do I feel better at but this was like that, but times 100 it was so intense, so difficult in the elements and cold and uncomfortable a lot of the time, and yet I felt better through it and I still feel it's definitely inspired me to get out more. So there you have it

Kate McGill 9:59
Wowm, I admire that like a lot I really need to listen to what you're saying.

Nate Maingard 10:04
So when I'm next in the UK or if you ever decide the desire to visit South Africa we can we can do our best to motivate one another. The danger is I also very much have the so we might meet up and be like, should we just Netflix? Should we just do that? And we're like, Yeah, totally. Let's watch a wilderness programme on Netflix.

Kate McGill 10:20
How are you with food stuff? Because I'm I'm like, if I can get a takeaway every day, I'll do it and I can have such bad habits when it comes to food.

Nate Maingard 10:31
Well, I no I'm not like that. I definitely love my sugary sweetie things but I've spent a lot of years shifting in a direction of whole food business because of health health challenges like basically I don't have the some people the people deal with those kind of foods in different ways. And so I found for me, I just get sick very quickly, like I'll get ill you know, I did not not like vomiting, but just I just keep getting annoyed, you know, just like just dying. And so and how do you define it? Because I do you feel well in your Did you feel energised and enlivened in your day to day living?

Kate McGill 11:08
No. So it's been, I mean, my my journey with food has been all over the shop, but I'm sure a lot of it's down to like childhood and parenting and the patterns that you just get into but very recently, I've kind of, for moving to this new place. I've had weeks where I've been really good and focused on health. And then I've had weeks where I've been down and then I just eat take away food. But it's been really interesting seeing, quite literally from week to week, the difference in my mood, the difference in my skin, the difference in my energy, just so quickly diminished, and I was like, Damn, I'd never really noticed the contrast that much before I guess. Normally, it's such a gradual kind of in and out sometimes I leave bad sometimes I won't but because it was just one week on one week off. I was I was amazed at how just how different I felt. So that's been a bit of a learning curve. So I'm very much on I want to say on the health train, but yeah, you can you can clearly see that my, my head around food is messed up but we're trying we're trying each day.

Nate Maingard 12:17
Right, exactly. I think we're all well, I can't speak for everyone but it seems to me we live in a culture that has a kind of pretty bad relationship with food overall. Yes, I guess I mean, do you do tour much? Because you I know you're an actively playing live musician. So

Kate McGill 12:32
well. We have we kind of had our years of touring, but honestly, I hate touring so much. There was a time that I honestly loved it, and I'd want to do it or day in day out, but now I just I just don't enjoy it. And also, the not many people come to our live shows. So we just cut that. Yeah, there was just a kind of time where we were like, We don't need to actually do this. We're kind of wasting a lot of energy here. But when we did, it was Yeah, like when you're on tour It's terrible. You just drinking alcohol all the time and because you kind of in my head because we did it kind of, I don't know for a couple of weeks in the summer and a couple of weeks in the winter, it always felt like a holiday so I was just like, Yeah, let's go to McDonald's. I mean, it was just terrible so it's definitely it's good to not be on tour anyway, I feel like if I if I can get back with food, it's only going to be for routine and you know, being focused on it. I feel

Nate Maingard 13:28
that so much and that's one of the things so I mean, we still drive around the Fairmont and we go Carly and I enjoy road tripping and we've definitely wanting to get more into that as we want to get more noisy but every single petrol station we stop at or what do you call them in England actually yeah. service station I guess service there Okay. And then in America think it's again something else but anyway, because they don't they're not pull it up. Truck Stop. Yeah. I love that. I remember when I first I'm getting so sidetracked. But when I first came to England and I taught, I literally said something like My pants are I need to wash my hands dirty dirty or so and in South Africa pants is your trousers and I I don't think I ever said pants again as long as I was in England, for those for those who don't know, pants, his underwear in, in England and so that was a fun moment.

Kate McGill 14:16
That would definitely be an eyebrow raiser if you said that to me.

Nate Maingard 14:23
Yeah. Anyway, so what I was saying is that on the road, I've noticed that eating healthily, even if you want to is pretty much impossible because every truck stop every petrol station, the food they offer, there is just sugar and white flour and all of the things that do all of the things to our bodies. And so to make a decision in the other direction, is actually a real act of often willpower often too much willpower actually. So getting habits and routines in place. super helpful being around other people who are on that journey, super helpful. And also staying super mellow about it like this idea of it being a regimented, I got it wrong, I ate the wrong thing. And now it's you know, and I, the only thing I'm extreme about is not being extreme about things.

Kate McGill 15:13
I love that I think that's such a good way of looking at it. It's taken me so long to get to that same place. I think like, I mean, damn couple years ago, I was I was so regimented, but only because I was I was like, I've had enough I'm fat, like, you know, just horrible stuff to yourself that you just don't need at times like that. And I'd be like, from now on, I'm never eating any cookie. I just be crazy about it. Whereas now I just know that's never going to work. It hasn't worked. So how was it going to suddenly work now? So I'm much much more chilled but I mean, I still struggle is the willpower, like you said, I mean, I just have fucking none of that. None of it.

Nate Maingard 15:56
I think I think I don't know

Kate McGill 15:59
Am I allowed to swear

Nate Maingard 16:01
Swear away This is the sorry I shall we I also asked that and as I'm getting passionate in a in a podcast interview and someone's I'm just just before I continue, what's your what's the word on the swear words? Yeah. But no, absolutely. I had you know the holistic psychologist on Instagram by any chance?

Kate McGill 16:20
No, but we were talking about her the other day, right? She's coming on your podcast.

Nate Maingard 16:23
she is. Actually I think I'm speaking with her tomorrow if all goes according to plan.

Nate Maingard 16:28
Yeah, I know. She's, she's great. She's one of those people who really is just on point with this kind of stuff. And she talks a lot about this idea of self sabotage comes a lot from our childhood when we were modelled basically not healthy habits. So either our parents or wherever, wherever it was model generally parents in some way and this is not blaming and thank you parents. Are you guys that great, but we all do the best we can. And at times if we get model this thing of what is it like not not sticking through with stuff, not having clear boundaries or those kinds of things. Then we do that to the to ourselves. And I know for myself, I have tried so many times to set up morning practices. I'm like, I'm going to do all the things to do The Artist's Way. I'm going to do the grant gratitude journal, I'm going to drink green tea, I'm going to be the most amazing Zen person every morning. And it lasts generally about three weeks before it all falls apart again. And she's very good. Thank you. Well, that added to add a push. Those are the actually the most recent one I was That was my long was almost six months of pretty much on it notice. When it fell. Thank you, thank you, but when it fell, it fell hard. And I haven't been able to get back on it since. But, um, but what she was saying is is is about learning to believe the promises we make to ourselves. So instead of saying, like now if I were to say and it sounds like if you were to say we're just going to eat whole food green stuff for the next three weeks, I would immediately go that's definitely not happening. Like there's a part of me. Just be like no, not know. And so what she says starts so small, like I Just one thing, I'm going to have one green juice a day for the next 30 days. And just but make that a whatever however small it needs to be that I know that I can do it one minute of meditation a day, but don't then add a bunch of other things. Just start there. And that's where I'm at right now. I have meditated for one minute this morning. And I felt real good about it.

Kate McGill 18:16
That's amazing. And I think you're so right, like, starting small is what you need to do. So often, you're like, I'm going to climb this massive mountain, of course, you're not going to climb that mountain, like be realistic with yourself. And I do have set myself a challenge as of today that I'm you know, I'm yoga with Adrian, she's that really is. Yeah, she I went on her site and I'm doing the 30 Days of Yoga, only because I mean, I need to exercise but I hate exercise and cardio, whereas yoga feels like it's somewhere in between moving your body but also spirituality and just a bit more relaxing. So I feel like I can really Do that and commit to it. So, I did my day one today and I really I feel like I believe myself when it comes to this one, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna fuck it up. So

Nate Maingard 19:09
yeah, we can

Kate McGill 19:10
in 30 days, I'll be like happy meditating every morning

Nate Maingard 19:15
that sounds fantastic. Well done on that. That's huge. Um, so I wanted to get I said earlier, we wanted to listen to some of your songs. And so you've chosen to, which is amazing. And how well actually, let's look, this is what I never know which order to do in. But basically you can choose is that either you can tell the storey of the first song first and then we listen to the song. Or you can we can listen to the song and then you can tell the storey of it. And that's kind of if you don't have a way that you prefer then I'll just say something.

Kate McGill 19:45
Yeah, and I'll say it first because I feel like it gives people a better by listening to it a better idea. The first one is called unable and I actually wrote it. I don't know like 10 days ago. Yeah. It's about it was the five year anniversary of it would have been the five year anniversary of me and my ex and we parted ways in February. And it's kind of about at the end of the day, like, I, I lost someone who wasn't really able to love me, and he lost someone who was very able to love him. So we've lost very different things. And it's kind of just about recognising, you know, after all the time that's passed. And things are still really difficult and we're in very different places. And yeah, the lyrics do most of the talking.

Nate Maingard 24:16
heartbreak is so painful

Kate McGill 24:20
Tell me about

Nate Maingard 24:23
that was a proper heartbreak song.

Kate McGill 24:29
Gotta Love it.

Nate Maingard 24:30
Yeah, that's it.

Kate McGill 24:32
You had your fair share of heartbreak.

Nate Maingard 24:34
Yeah, I have it's it's been a journey but I actually wrote a song some years ago called heart and a million pieces, which was basically inspired by three different heartbreaks, it kind of took three to get to the point I was like, Okay, I'm ready to write this bloody song.

Kate McGill 24:50
Bloody hell, three, three major heartbreaks

Nate Maingard 24:53
Well, I wouldn't say that none of them. So I'm going to dive in deep and immediately a lot of the time. But yeah, but this is, I wonder, I wonder where this song so if you feel like this song is coming from a place of processing this experience or a place of like, in a way holding on to the experience I know that's a hard question to ask.

Kate McGill 25:16
Oh no, it's fine. Um, I have done so much processing since February like I mean, the human I am it's impossible for me not to process I'd never like hide away or try and make myself believe something that's not true like I'm very when it comes to my own. what life is I'm very factual with myself but you know, transparently I still love this guy hugely. And I have so much hope. And yeah, he's literally with someone else. So I'm trying to remind myself every day like these are the facts, you know? But I am I'm such an idealist and a dreamer. And I believe that people can change and be better and that you know, I, I'm just I'm a bit of an idealist so I've processed as much as I physically possibly can. And I'm telling myself every day the facts of what this is, but in my heart of hearts I long for a future together. So yeah,

Nate Maingard 26:29
thank you for being real about that. That's amazing. That's such a courageous. Ah, that's huge.

Kate McGill 26:36
Let's hope he never listens to this,

Nate Maingard 26:38
right. Oh, yeah, I feel like I so from my my difference in that is that a large part of my personal trauma was around abandonment. My relationship with my mom was fraught with her just not being there and the times that I needed her most critically, to the point that she actually did. She disappeared at 1.4 like nine months when I was pretty, like 12 years old, 13 years old, and without explanation, all these kind of things, and we're in a good relationship now. And we it's a working relationship, we are working on it, and it's challenging, but I feel like my defence mechanism around that was that as soon as things started to get a little uncomfortable, I was the first one to just bail to get the fuck out of there so quickly. Yeah, yeah. And actually that song heart in a million pieces. I wrote that after I had sort of gone through this period of celibacy in my mid 20s, and then sort of re entered this interactive, realising I wanted to interact in a different way. And I was for the first time really letting my heart really enter into these experiences. And I'm like, gosh, it is fraught with danger and pain.

Kate McGill 27:45
Right? Man, that's amazing, though, that you like you went on such a journey like that with like, opening yourself back up to people after what sounds like a crazy traumatic kind of childhood. Expect Like, that's amazing that you're where you are now and that you're with your sweetheart and that you're feeling kind of complete. As you can be obviously, we're working progress, people. But that's so so, so cool. And I need to hear this song.

Nate Maingard 28:14
Yeah, I'll I'll send you actually, there's a crazy version of it on YouTube with where I was playing it to the third woman, the semi unfinished version, because I knew as soon as I met her, and we started talking to one another, I was like, I'm in so much this is going to be so bad. Like, this is not this is this is this is a recipe for disaster. And that's when I started writing the song. Because I was like, I just, I just I was diving into it, and I knew it was coming. And then I actually was sitting in a hotel room on like, the 16th floor in San Francisco, playing her the song and she filmed it and I'll send you that version. It's on YouTube, as I'll put it in the show notes as well. But you are such a romantic That's fantastic. I think there's

Kate McGill 28:57
But then I also like you said I was thinking about About how how we our relationships and our relationship with food, like they go go back to childhood and what we, you know, our parents and stuff and the sad part is my dad left my mom. And they kind of got back together here and there but like, before she she's still massively loved him and didn't meet anyone else. And then she died and he's kind of with someone else now and, and I'm like, Damn, I just gonna be like my mouth. And just pining for someone for the rest of my life who doesn't feel the same way. And yeah, you just kind of you see all the patterns and I see myself repeating them and I'm like, Damn, I can't seem to stop this. I am my mom.

Nate Maingard 29:43
That is wild. That is a that is not an uncommon story. I mean, it's a very it's the opposite. In fact, the storey of us playing out the patterns set up by our parents and then their parents and who knows how far back some of these things can go.

Kate McGill 29:57
Maybe from now on when we meet people. We should be like First of all, what's your parents marriage? Like? Are they together? What did they do? Because chances are we're going to do the exact same.

Nate Maingard 30:10
Totally Well, I think my dad has a beautiful story about I mean, He, the lineage on my father's side is one of violence basically is one of the primary traumas that has been passed down through there's also been positives, obviously, lots of positives. But if we're talking about the stuff that shapes us in a, in a sort of maybe challenging negative way, or destructive way, put it that way. One of them is violence on my dad's side, and he had a moment when he was in his I think 40s. And he finally started therapy, I think in his late 30s, and realising he wanted to unravel these things, and he was on a weekend, I think, a transactional analysis weekend, which is a kind of psychotherapy and I think the facilitator said something like, you can break the chains you can through doing the work on yourself overtime, you can break the chains and my dad said he spent the rest of that weekend weeping like he just literally To actually realise for the first time in his life, that he could do it differently, that he didn't have to have that lineage passed through him. And I think that's what I keep as hopeful because, you know, my dad did better than his dad and my mom did better than her mom. But but they both gave me the traumas that they themselves received in some way or another. And, and I feel like, through my own work, I can change that. And so for you as well, it's like the fact that you even aware, the fact that you even have that that you are like, there is a pattern and I am playing it out. That is massive.

Kate McGill 31:33
Yeah. Right. The fact that there's any kind of self awareness and we're just awake to the fact that we can repeat these patterns. A lot of people, sadly, just they're in their own heads, and they're in their own lives, and they don't even realise that there's this massive, like, unconscious thing that's driving their entire lives. And so as soon as you can, yeah, like you said, just recognise and understand. Oh, actually, this is kind of all built in me kind of like a machine. When I'm younger, and all I have to do is recognise the wiring to be like okay, we can break them a bit now and change them around. Easier said than done obviously.

Nate Maingard 32:09
Yeah. Oh my gosh I see on a daily basis I look at those little patterns and I'm oh cool I can change that now then something comes to trigger it and I'm immediately right there just

Kate McGill 32:21
yeah, it's me and Kina were talking about that they were just how frustrating it is to almost from a bird's eye view. Watch yourself make the mistakes that you're just like, I know this is like my thing. Why do I keep doing it? I'm watching myself do it crazy.

Nate Maingard 32:36
Yeah. Yeah. It is frustrating. I my dad another story of my dad's he will actually was this Have you heard of vipassana meditation?

Kate McGill 32:47
I think I've heard of it. Yeah,

Nate Maingard 32:48
yeah, it's a 10 day what's it's a technique apparently the one taught by Buddha and that whole thing and but it's you can do your initial one is a 10 day silent meditation retreat and and on that your hands are it's intact. It's like 11 hours of meditation a day from an hour. Anyway, that's a whole nother story. But there's

Kate McGill 33:04
you like with your one minute like, you'll get to 11 hours one day.

Nate Maingard 33:11
It was me at that time. It was me with zero meditation experience when I went to my though anyone I've been on so far. Anyway, but, but one of the thing that the teacher going, he says, because they show videos will play audio of him and he says, meditation basically just gives you. Oh,

Kate McGill 33:28
I think someone's at my door.

Nate Maingard 33:31
Go, find, greet this person.

Kate McGill 33:32
Is that All right?

Nate Maingard 33:35

Kate McGill 33:37
I just installed this new doorbell. So I'm just very happy It works, to Be honest.

Nate Maingard 33:41
Oh, there you go. We've just tested it up perfect. It doesn't we were I was just saying, yes. Going through meditation. He's basically said, the reason we meditate is because over time, we basically get a fraction of a second of time between the thing that happens and our reaction to the thing that happens and over time. You might then get a whole second an entire second before the usual reaction kicks in and then as you increase meditation or overtime eventually you get to choose how do I want to respond to this?

Kate McGill 34:11
Yeah I'm guessing you've read the power of now and stuff like that.

Nate Maingard 34:15
I bits of it I haven't read that but yeah stuff like that for sure.

Kate McGill 34:19
Yeah, it's all it's all about that isn't it just your you have this kind of unconscious being that wants to react to everything but as soon as you can just yeah, have that one second of just being like, way okay, I can I can stop this before it begins. How do I actually want to go forward is huge. It's such a life changing thing to be able to do really like I felt consider myself a lucky at this age to even be aware of that.

Nate Maingard 34:45
Exactly. I wish they taught all of this in school. I feel like I've said that on several of my episodes, but I just I really do

Kate McGill 34:51
and meditation. Imagine if I mean, if I have a kid I'm, I'm gonna force it down their throat.

Nate Maingard 34:58
Violent meditation. Meditation, you will be the best meditator this world has ever known.

Kate McGill 35:05
You will do 11 hours a day. You will not have a life.

Nate Maingard 35:10
Yeah, exactly. That's no fun meditation. You mentioned earlier about your mom and that she passed on. And that was kind of, as I said, I only come across you quite recently. But that came out quite clearly in the in the way that you've been sharing and talking. And I have not yet lost a parent. And I have no frame of reference to understand how, what in any way what that feels like. And I just, I guess, just in the brief moment I've come across you I appreciate how open you've been about it and how communicative and so I don't know, is there anything you'd like to share with people about that or just, I don't even know what to say, but I just want to hear that storey a little bit. It's such a hard thing to ask but

Kate McGill 35:52
it's I mean, I honestly it's I know people who have lost someone say there's a lot but to be asked. about her is an absolute privilege and to be able to speak about another day or her or you know what she's taught me is amazing. It's an amazing gift to give someone so thank you for asking. And but yeah, it was last August and it was actually Kenya's birthday. But yeah, it was completely out of the blue. She She just had a heart attack basically out of the blue and died that day. And it's very quick. We all kind of travelled down home, which is like a two hour journey. And she was kind of awake I think not like awake, but there was still oxygen in her body, but it hadn't been to her brain for so long. So, yes, and it was it was a crazy day because it's one of those things that you just you never think it's going to happen to you. You always think oh, you know, other people lose their Moms and whatever, but it was just, it was absolutely crazy. And I've you know, never seen dead body before, let alone your mom lying there. And it's jarring and it's Yeah, it taught me a lot. And I think I kind of kind of made grief kind of like an exercise. And luckily because of Patreon, I didn't have a nine to five job like my siblings. So I was able to go home and just dedicate my time to grieving really, I didn't. There was not obviously you know, around that time, there's not a second that passes that you're not in turmoil and life's not the worst thing ever. But I was able to process so much day in day out I focused on it that within six months, I felt like I'd gotten everything I possibly needed to like, it doesn't hit me randomly in the days anymore. Like I genuinely feel like I grieved so intensely that at heart, it just doesn't faze me anymore doesn't hit me in the same way. And I can think of her and I can just smile and you know, all those kind of cliches, but it's crazy. It's just so crazy. And even actually, last night, I was laying in bed and I was like, how mental is it that she's just not in the world anymore? Like, this woman that you know, so deeply? And who knows you and you just assume is always there just suddenly, is not on the planet, and you can never see them again or speak to them again. It's jarring and it's bizarre. I feel like that was a terrible answer. I went all around the houses. But basically, it's it's, it's so strange, but I feel like I've you know, I've learned crazy crazy amounts about myself and my family and how I deal with loss and you know, everything. Yeah, but she What's cool about her I mean, that's an understatement. There was so much that was cool about her. But she was massively into meditation and she was a teacher of it and she became an a shy a monk. And she just had so she was teaching me so much. And the saddest part is obviously after she died was only then I started kind of learning much more about meditation and spirituality and reading all the books that she'd been trying to force down my throat for years. And I was like, Damn, like, why am I only learning this now? Like, I've got so much to ask you and so much that I wish I could pick your brain about but isn't that just the way life goes? Yeah, but she was she was she was an awesome, awesome human being.

Nate Maingard 39:45
I mean, I thought you spoke beautifully. And it's it's such a mystery to me at this point. Although I we'll all go through that kind of loss at some point, which is fucking intense. Many times over. In fact, like, you know, I mean,

Kate McGill 40:00
Right, but oh my god, you know what the weirdest part was? Is that the day before? Me and my bandmates were just booed off because we have we meant to do a festival on that day. And I'm so we were rehearsing the day before and I said the words I've never had to deal with a close death before that still to come. The next day, is that the universe definitely, definitely plays some weird little tricks on your life. That was very strange, but kind of funny now.

Nate Maingard 40:31
Yeah. Well, that's interesting, my aunt said, when, when my grandmother passed, this was some years ago actually in the UK was on Bristol and but hers was a you know, she was super old and kind of not really, in Connect her brain wasn't really connected to three dimensions anymore already. And so, but it was a lengthy process of like, a few weeks of her just slowly, slowly going, and my answer the thing that actually she found, I don't know if it was surprising or just, they kind of kept them going was she and her sister were kind of They're holding that space and it was humour they said they laughed so much I mean their mom wasn't really up for conversation but between them there was so exhausted and looking after her all the time and they said they just actually had so much fun like they laughed and in amongst this impossible grief and I just thought that's interesting. Yeah,

Kate McGill 41:23
Yeah, exactly. I think I was saying the same thing. I like I did a video on it. And I The main thing that I love was Yeah, that everything still exists like yeah, there's this huge heaviness and you're crying a lot of the time obviously and your brains trying to process something. But yeah, like I food still tasted really good and I still love the company of my friends and I still laughed at things like everything was still fine. There was just kind of this black sludge that was just following me for a bit but like, you're right like emotions are so high. That the the highs that each is wonderful because you're like, Damn, I felt so sad for a while, but this laughter feels incredible. Yeah, I completely understand that.

Nate Maingard 42:09
Yeah, that one of the things that really struck me about what you said was around actually around your patrons and Patreon. I mean, we're both Patreon creators, and that you basically were given time to grieve by having support. I mean, I that's the part where I was like, I think I'm gonna start crying now. But we live in a world that actually doesn't give a space for for those intense for grief really, and to go, Okay, take however long you need and grieve with the community will support you. We understand it's beyond description. You need to go into this right I don't we have a world that does that for people.

Kate McGill 42:44
I know like you get like, I think my brothers and sister got like a week off at the most and I I couldn't I couldn't understand that then and I think I genuinely believe that's why, why their grief and their loss. You know? comes up and hits them much more because it was delayed. They didn't, they literally had to go to work and focus on anything else and push this emotion down. So it's going to keep coming up. And it's a weird thing to say that I felt lucky to just be able to sit there and cry all the time. That's obviously strange, but I will never ever be able to thank my patrons enough for that because they were all so supportive, as you can imagine. And they were like, you don't have to commit to anything right? Don't voice No, us don't upload creations. Don't do anything, we will just be here and they were like, take a year if you want, like they were so incredible. And I mean, how fortunate is that? I mean, it's just incredible. Thinking back to it now like I'm the luckiest human being on the planet. I really believe that.

Nate Maingard 43:48
It just it works so deeply in the in my core beliefs around what humanity the potential that we have for one another and how we are designed to treat one another. I think of myself as well. If really struggled with depression the last few years and my creation has been like super low. And so yeah, my patreon has been shrinking, but over, but no one's my patrons overall, in the vast majority have just been, like, supportive in ways that I've struggled to feel okay about, like, it's hard for me to just accept that. And yeah, yeah, anyway, thank you Patrons.

Kate McGill 44:25
Right? You guys are incredible. It's so cool. Because I remember Kina saying like, they love you. And what you do is a bonus thing, but they just like you and they want to support you and what you're doing and your life. And yeah, I cannot get my head around that still to this day. I'm like, Yeah, but they're gonna get annoyed at me if I don't do this. And I'm having a really bad day, but and they're just like, Kate, take your time. It's fine, and I cannot get my head around it. Crazy, generous, wonderful, beautiful people.

Nate Maingard 44:53
Totally. Well, I think it's actually the thought that comes to me now is interesting how our job right or how I see our job and you can tell me how you that aligns or not but our job is to put words to the inexperienced in scribe, indescribable, indescribable Yeah, experience of being human, the emotions from everything from, you know, having falling in love to heartbreak, which is I think, is pretty much as broad as you can get in terms of spectrum. And, and that we literally dedicate our lives to that. And a lot of society doesn't really, they listen to our songs, and they use them in soundtracks and society loves having music on as background in cafes. But when it comes to actually paying artists, the message I've so often got is why you should get a real job if you want to make money out of that, but our patrons and the people who get it for them, they value it so much that they they pay us to do that. And then when we reach those points where we literally have to go deep into those feelings, they're like, of course, of course, because that's what you're here to do.

Kate McGill 45:56
That makes so much sense. I've never seen it so wonderfully, simply Before, that's sick, yeah, where were some lucky people, man, I really, I'll never. And you know, like, I'm very aware that there's going to be one day in my life that things are probably going to change and adapt. And maybe I won't be 60 and still doing this stuff. But I never want to be able to look back and be like, I just took that time for granted. And because I, I like have to force myself every day to really think like, my friends are getting up and going to work. And some of them are very unhappy in their jobs. And some of them don't feel fulfilled. And I'm like, I have everything I could possibly want. And I have dedicated people that just love me and want to support me like, I need to remember this every single day because it's just insanely amazing. And, yeah, it's crazy.

Nate Maingard 46:51
That's crazy. There's an interesting difference in the way the western mind and the sort of Eastern or Middle Eastern mind works which I read about some time ago. It was Where, if you go to a sort of beggar on the streets of, or at least the way the western mind works is that we off we tend to lean towards going, what my life's not okay? Because look at what all those other people have. They have those things either and haven't that I want. I even had a moment of that with when I saw your podcast and I was like, then even your name we dive deep is like it just it's so sensible. And it's so clear what it's talking about. And you have so many great interviewees, and you have so many great reviews and I was just like, my podcast sucks. And I did that thing. I just had to throw that I just did in all nakedness. I had that that that shame piece around looking at other and thinking I'm not as good. But that's what we kind of tend to do in the West. And then if you go to sort of the streets of Mumbai or something in India and you see a beggar with a ball and you say, Oh my gosh, your life looks really difficult and he'll look over and he'll say, See that beggar over there. He doesn't have a ball. At least I have a ball yes like that difference. yeah anyway, I just yeah how we look we're all doing the best we can everyone I've ever met has something to be grateful for and that's

Kate McGill 48:12
yeah and and also just carrying on what you just said. I remember hearing when people are kind of get at I'm gonna say this terribly but angry at people or frustrated people or disappointed in people. You have to ask the question, do you believe that they are doing the best that they possibly can? And you can only ever answer yes really like even if people are disappointing you and I don't know keep messing up in their brains in their lives. They are doing the best that they can. And I feel like it just strips away any kind of judgement really because everyone everyone's genuinely trying and I yeah, I mean that had no relevance what you just said but I think

Nate Maingard 48:57
it does. I think it I think that's such a good For way of, I think there are certain, like, archetype or based truths about being human and that is one of them. I had that exact or some years ago and it clicked with me and I just thought in all my life have I done the best I can even when the best I can was really really really bad and I did really terrible things and hurt people and was I doing the best I could in that moment. I clearly because that's what I did. Yeah, it wasn't like I was thinking I'm going to hurt people now.

Kate McGill 49:26
Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Nate Maingard 49:28
Have you watched Have you heard of the film humans? How much time do you have by the way? Okay, wicked. So there's a film which I still haven't watched the full full I've only watched a little excerpts of it, but one of the trailers it's called human I think humans out I will link to it as well in the show notes, but it's young artist, Bertrand who is one of my favourite photographers made this movie and and the reason that I know about it is I saw a little clip of a sort of trailer on Facebook or whatever and it was this guy. Thanks. An African American man sitting with sort of a dark background, so I didn't know where he was. And he's talking directly to the camera. He's looking straight into the camera. He's talking and he's telling a horrific storey, basically. And he's saying that when when his father used to beat him when he was a child, and he would tell him, he did it because he loved him. And so growing up he equated love with pain. And when he grew up, he his way to tell if people loved him was how much pain they could take from him to the point and then as he's talking, I'm hearing sounds in the background. He sounds like he's in prison, and I realised Oh gosh, he's in prison. And he turns out that he actually did the most horrific of things which was to kill his his wife and their child. I think I don't I don't know the exact date but like the most horrific thing, and as he's talking get so emotional with this one really hit me hard, but these tears started just pour out of his eyes and he's not like sobbing, he's just talking calmly to the camera and his eyes are just overflowing and he says when I learned what love really is, is when the mother and grandmother and the mother of my mind Wife and the grandmother of our child came to visit me in prison. And she showed me what real love is. And I just like, this is the world that where he did the best that he could was where he thought he thought that love was pain. And it took someone, this woman, this huge hearted woman whose child had been killed by him to come to prison and be like, I'm here, and I love you. And he was like, Whoa, that's what love is.

Kate McGill 51:24
Wow. Yeah, I know, that is fucking crazy, isn't it? I think like, as if, I mean, it's such a crazy point to get to. And I understand. Like, I think I spoke to my dad about this on the podcast I did with him. And he was saying, like, you know, even even murderers, these people that you know, everyone would deem just evil and, you know, you see like on the Daily Mail, the comments are like, yeah, hang them. They're terrible. And there's just this blanket. These people suck and I'm just like, know, everyone has that storey there's a reason for everything. Everything that everyone does and even if you don't understand it doesn't if you were born with their childhood their brains their location, you would do the same thing. And as soon as you can kind of understand that even just a little bit you can't ever judge anyone ever again like we're all drew just human beings and yes some rolling completely different parts of our journeys but you could never just blanket someone is out there terrible the end like do you know what I mean, I just like once you see it so clearly like that you every human is just the most wonderful magical complex thing ever

Nate Maingard 52:42
No, exactly that I yeah, this is such good conversations. I feel like this is I want to live my life everyday the way we're talking about like that's

Kate McGill 52:53
like, I feel like that's why I did my podcast.

Nate Maingard 52:57
Yeah. I had A wild experience many years ago and I one of the first time was I was living in London and I I don't know how it happened but I had this I think was the first time I was really eating very clean food for a while and I wasn't drinking and I got in the space of very, like a lot of clarity and I just started to get clear in my head in a in a way I hadn't been before and I was riding the tuba light and I started having this very strange experience where everywhere I looked I was seeing angels like but but people if it was just it was everyone it was all the people on the train everywhere looked as like I can't see a place where there isn't an angel and just that the candle that is their Angel flame was just brighter or dimmer and some of them but none of them was it out there is no one as well to his does not and I'd love to I was seeing it not literally physically but it's the only way I can describe it as it was a light and in some they were dim and some was shining and I was so chaotic. Does anyone else see this is this because here we are all of us. I don't there's not a there's not a non Angel around me on this tube every day.

Kate McGill 53:57
How cool is that?

Nate Maingard 53:59
It was pretty cool. It didn't last but it was amazin

Kate McGill 54:01
And in London too, of all places. Wow.

Nate Maingard 54:06
Okay, I want to hear we have another song of yours and I would love to hear it. So So tell us what is this song?

Kate McGill 54:12
Yeah, I guess this is this is definitely about the kind of couple of weeks after mom died and it was very much about just hiding away, not wanting to see anyone or do anything but just sit there and think of her. But also realising that life just would never be the same because she kind of embodied me and now that she wasn't there. It was very much like Who the hell am I and what's my life about now that she isn't here?

Nate Maingard 58:01
Thank you. It's interesting to me because it sounds like that song. Based on what you've been saying, Now, that you, you've come through that right, take that place where that song was written in.

Kate McGill 58:16
Yeah, 100% and I am so grateful that I think that that song is a reminder to me that no matter how crazy dark your brain can get, and in the depths of anything, you always come out of it and there's always a it's always going to be okay again and you would like, even umm, it was only coming out of depression and grief and all that stuff, the beginning of this year that I realised I was even in it, but there were times that I just just so such intense pain that I'm sure we've all felt. I mean, I can remember like just wincing with pain. And like scratching myself through emotional pain, which is crazy. And I, you know, I was, yeah, borderline suicidal. I was texting my dad, like, please, if I still feel like this in a year, will you help me die, which is just crazy, like my brain is just not there anymore. But there was a time I was clearly there. And so now coming out of it and hearing the songs that I made, and even just reading the text that I sent, it's just a reminder of Damn, like, it never stays the same. And you can be in such a different mental place in such a short amount of time to that you should you just you just need to keep going. Because if you told me like, you know, the end of the year, you'll be living a new place and you'll be so happy and I just wouldn't have believed you. So yeah, I think these songs are a reminder of that, that things just change and move and grow.

Nate Maingard 59:56
Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you for that song. Do you...This actually made me what you were just saying brought up a question around. And this is something I still don't know what to do about. And maybe someone who's experienced that you could say is like, what? what felt like the responses that resonated with you when when someone would hear your mom's died? And then so they come to this year for the first time since it's happened. And they say, whatever they say, what are the things that go? Oh, that feels? That feels good? How did that feel? Oh, that doesn't feel at all. Do you have any examples of those? Or I mean, I hope they don't never listen to this. But it's and it's not a judgement. It's that because I don't know. Because I want to say I'm sorry, but I have no idea what how, what am I sorry for what do I even know? I don't have shit to say,

Kate McGill 1:00:44
Yeah, you're not the first person to ask this. And I think everyone can. I think it's because it's one of those situations that there is literally nothing that you can do or say, people are just like, Well, what do I say then? Because it just everything is going to feel like empty. But I mean, I can definitely tell you what not to say. I had some on the just, you know, the kind of older generation, they're very much stuck in their ways. And they'd be kind of like, Don't cry, your mom wouldn't want that. Or, you know, the kind of Yeah, and you're just kind of like, what she literally died last week. Like, you tell me not to cry. But I think you know, people have different relationships with their emotions. So I can understand that, you know, given this human I was like, Okay, I can, I can see you for what you are. You're just trying to help, but that's not helpful. But to be honest, I just would encourage you to never worry about what you could say that could ever be wrong or offensive or heartless or anything because you It's true that you live, there's nothing that you could say that would make it better or worse, like, as long as you're literally there and listening and you're like, Hey, this is the worst fucking thing ever. I don't know how you're feeling. I don't even know what to say. I'm gonna sit here and just cry with you. Oh, that's enough. You don't need to do anything or you don't say anything else. But I've been in that position before mom where I'm like, What the hell? Do you say to that there's nothing. It's the most inconceivable thing to go through. But I tell you what, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. Which sounds crazy, but I guess I guess the difference is, and this this is gonna sound crazy. But breaking up with someone a heartbreak, genuinely feels worse than losing my mom. And my mom said that about my dad too. She was kind of like, you know, people mom didn't choose to leave me. Whereas my ex chose to leave and they're still living a life that's a hell of a lot more pain. Whereas with mom, and I guess I'm lucky that I had a great relationship with her but there's no loose ends, there's no one else in I saw her dead body. I know. Like my brain knows that. It's real. And then She's not here. So that in itself was that was kind of easy to get my head around. But heartbreaks a whole different ballgame. I think I don't know how we got on to that. But yeah.

Nate Maingard 1:03:12
No, no, just talking about how to how to connect with someone who's gone through something like that. It's interesting. I wonder if we should treat because I definitely would fit with someone's going through heartbreak. I would feel much calmer and easier to be like, Oh, you know, I feel you and you'll be fine. But oh my gosh, that's fine. That's interesting. Actually, I maybe need to shift how talk about heartbreak when someone's heartbroken. Although no, I don't think I would, I would never minimise someone's feelings. That's the thing. Feelings are feelings. And I, my acknowledgement is I have no idea how this feels for you, whatever it is. And so if we can get to that place of not knowing and yet I'm here and I'm showing up and I'm with you, maybe that's enough

Kate McGill 1:03:55

Nate Maingard 1:03:56
Nice. Well, thank you so much. I there's only one other thing really that I I want to set why there's so much but I'm kind of like otherwise we could be here for a really long time. But which is fine with me actually, um, but my brother Josh, I have to tell you, this little story and I'm going to read you, right I'll read you his the messages he sent me because first I'll tell you the story. Okay, so the story is. I think I told you I was going to tell you the storey. But anyway, the story is Josh lives in Sydney, Australia. I live in Cape Town, South Africa. He's two years younger than me. He's an amazing, amazing dude. And we have a very, very different kind of lifestyle and way of approaching life. But we meet in the most important and deep of places. I actually wrote a song for him many years ago called a little little brother. And it's just about how many similarities we have and how much I love them and all those things. Anyway, so so he was visiting recently, and we did a wonderful road trip, which was the greatest of gifts and we wrote we drove up from Cape Town to visit our dad, which is like a nine hour drive. So we got some good time together that day, and we had a lot of different topics we were chatting about and we got onto the topic of my podcast and I was just saying how How enjoyable it is that I'm doing it again I stopped for a while and I just and I was saying I had this amazing guest Keno grant assign and she's just such a phenomenal human and and one of the things one of my favourite things out of many favourite things is that it's connected me with this lovely lady Kate McGill and so now she's going to come on and I kept on chatting and and I realised that as soon as I said the words Kate McGill and carried on Josh had gone he was driving and he just got very his whole energy had gone very quiet like something had changed. And he was just kind of carried on driving and I spent a few other things that he's like Kate Miguel, and and he and he's is she British yeah she is that's how do you know of any any get any asked me a few more questions. He's like, I can't believe this is the cake McGill that I thought it was. And he's like, and he was like having one of those moments you know when life kind of collides and the sink and just go. What? Yeah, I'm basically I'll just read you The little messages he sent to me because I was like I'm chatting with her. And so I said you have any questions or anything you want to say? And he says, I have no questions for her. Just tell her I say hello, bought her CD in 2012. And she still sings me to sleep with her angelic voice from time to time, and that her realness is energising? Yeah. And then he's just moved into a new flat recently. You can also tell her her cover. Her cover of fix you was the first song I played my new flatmate while bonding over music we loved. So for him, it was this moment of something that he had loved so much that he just never expected to be connected. We were driving through the middle of the claim crew. It's like a semi desert in South Africa. And suddenly, it was so cool, so, his expression in his face, the whole thing.

Kate McGill 1:06:47
Oh, man. Hi, Josh. If you're listening Hello, thank you so much for being so kind and encouraging and for buying replaced. I'm assuming this replace and just How sick is that? worlds collided and in the middle of a road trip like to think that two of these human beings are talking about me randomly. It's to life's fucking crazy. And Hello, and thank you. Weird.

Nate Maingard 1:07:14
Yeah. Thanks, Josh. That was a good moment. He actually, he has another question for you, which is maybe, as you said, might be a little tough if you want to answer we can get into it says we would be interested to know why she did all those covers had insane amounts of views, and then then created metal lock. What happened? Why didn't it work out? And is she not planning on doing more covers Sasha own stuff? Get the feeling maybe she doesn't connect with the covers and wanted to create?

Kate McGill 1:07:42
Yeah, well, it was definitely I am such an impulsive human being like, if I just have an intuition. I'm like, Yeah, right. I'm just kind of like that. I'm gonna follow this now. And I follow things, you know, my intuition blindly. And that was one of those things where I remember searching my name on Google. As we all do at some point, and it saying like Kate McGill is known for her covers of blah, blah, blah. And I was like, Damn, I don't want to be known as this cover girl. Like I wrote my own stuff. And I feel really passionate about it. And so I just I stopped the YouTube thing very like quickly in my head. I was like, I don't want to do that anymore. Like I want to write with other people. I want to be inspired. I want to you know, stop that and a lot of people's Yeah, said I was crazy because that was kind of the peak of my YouTube career you want to call it but that metal like gave me insane amounts of joy and inspiration. So I knew that that was the right thing because I felt so good. And now Yeah, a completely different stage where I'm loving doing the covers again and I'm loving creating content and I saw me a metal like a still a thing. And I wrote with Dan and we are still going to release our second album and stuff and now I just get to do all of it. Now I'm greedy and what to do all of it. So yeah, I think a lot of people don't know what's going on in my brain and neither do I But I'm just following it.

Nate Maingard 1:09:02
It's nice to hear from someone else who flows in that way. And actually Josh is he's so much more sort of analytically minded than I am. He's he studied business science. He's done an MBA. He's like one of the smartest people I've ever met. And, and I feel like I fight against my impulsiveness a lot where I keep trying to do Okay, I'm gonna do a video every week and a podcaster today, and I'm going to do all the and it's all going to be structured and never last. And Josh is often just be like, are you sure you want to commit to that kind of consistency is like just, you know what, why, just if you just let it happen, which is amazing for because he's got so much of that skill and that talent that that ability. So it's nice to hear from you as well, who's also in that place.

Kate McGill 1:09:44
Yeah, thank you.

Nate Maingard 1:09:47
Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you, Kate McGill.

Kate McGill 1:09:50
Thank you, Nate.

Nate Maingard 1:09:52
It's been a great pleasure and I really appreciate your honesty and openness and there. I do not exaggerate when I say that. That wasn't You're doing and what I'm doing and the people our guests are doing and the people we love are doing, by choosing to be honest and open and vulnerable with the world is one of the most healing things we could do for society right now. So thank you so much for that.

Kate McGill 1:10:11
Yes. Hell Yes. Thank you so much for asking me the good questions. I love it. Thank you.

Nate Maingard 1:10:22
That was delightful. I am sitting in my office having just edited this whole episode. And so I've had the chance to go through the whole thing, and take notes and listen to it. And I just, I hope that you get some awesome stuff out of this. I really appreciate Kate and her willingness to go to all the places to the brightest lights and the darkest shadows and everything in between. And as I just said to her, I think this is what the world needs more than anything right now as we enter as we are in one of the most challenging times I think humanity has ever faced. And now is the time more than ever for us to just get real with each other get honest. And so yeah, I wanted to take this opportunity. read a few comments. And thank you so much. One of them is I actually said at the beginning it was going to be anonymous. One of them isn't because that was someone who commented directly on the post Lily's podcast episode, I had naked with nate.com. Remember to go there for the show notes. There's lots of good things. That's how you become a patron or leave a review or read all the full show notes. It all happens at naked with nate.com. So make sure to do that at some point. I love that website. I'm also very proud of it because I built it and I put a lot it a lot of love and care and attention into it. Anyway, so this first comment was on on as I said Lily Lobo's episode and it was I really loved the episode. It was my first time listening to your show, and the longer I listened, the more I really loved it. It was a breath of fresh air to hear such usually forbidden topics spoken about as if they were normal things. I wish I could feel comfortable talking about these things to my friends, but I don't think they would quite understand. Keep up the awesome work you do. And I'll have to go back and listen To all the older episodes, and that comment was from Jess, thank you Jess you hit all the nails and all the heads of everything that I ever dreamed that this podcast can do for someone is literally bring the taboo the forbidden bring the topics that have been marginalised and demonised and ostracised, and bring them out into humaneness and just fucking talk about them. It's okay, we're human. It's old us expressing ourselves if we can just connect in that place. I think we can heal ourselves, we can heal each other we can heal the world it's possible and it requires that courageous honesty and I so hope that you find either new friends or with your current friends or whoever it is that you love and need to communicate with. I hope you can find a way to safely do that to be heard and held and loved and cared for. That is my wish for you. Do let me go know how that goes as as as it unfolds going forward. And if you do want some specific tools about communication exercises, I can help you out with that. Also, if you want an epic online community That I think is just one of the safest, most beautiful places I hang out on the internet. It actually is the most is my Patreon page. If you become a patron you get access to a members only Discord server, which is basically like an online forum or community. And you can talk about anything on there. There are there it is available and the people on there are such rad humans. So kind, so gentle, so available for all the things. So yes, thank you. Next up, I'm trying not to say as much but it's really hard. I know I can edit it out. Now. I can't edit that one out because I'm talking about it, trying to just pause without having to fill it with something else. Anyway, someone sent me the most glorious of messages on my Facebook page after listening to the Lily Labeau episode. So this is an anonymous comment from a wonderful human and this is what that human said.

Nate Maingard 1:13:55
"Hi, Nate. I'm a recent follower slash liker of you and your page. just listened to your latest podcast with Lily LaBeau. Thank you. Thank you to both of you for speaking so openly about sexuality, as well as sexuality in relation to so many other areas of life. I have been in an open marriage for a year now 10 years not open, but we explored together. And although this year of sexual exploration has been liberating, exciting and rejuvenating, I have also found myself riddled with shame, judgement towards myself, and a lot of confusing questions of what the fuck am I actually doing? listening to this podcast calmed my mind in the most wonderful way. It gave me answers to questions I didn't even know I had. So thank you. Thank you for sharing your truth so that I may learn to embrace and share mine more freely."

Nate Maingard 1:14:52
Oh my word. That is what it is about guys. That is the whole thing. That is the whole purpose of that is the whole meaning for me. I realised more and more that I feel most fulfilled when I hear things like that things like Jess and this other wonderful human have said, when I've heard the comments about my songwriting, how my songs have helped people through their darkest times or help them to express their brightest times, or just help them through the craziness of being human. When I hear that this podcast is having the kind of impact and effect that it's having for people, it just it fills my heart and it lets me know that I'm I am worthy, it is worth me getting out of bed in the morning and doing and showing up. This is what it is. So thank you so much for taking the time to share those with me. Even just sharing the comments again reading them I just feel so full and grateful and delighted so Oh yes, let's do this. Let's keep this going. You wonderful listeners. You are getting naked with Nate. You're getting naked with yourselves. This is what the world needs, feelings, opinions, expression, openness, just honesty and truth kindness, we can do this this is worth doing now is the time So one more time. Do visit the show notes naked with nate.com. And that's where you can become a patron If you value and you can afford to if you can't, then totally cool, there are many others who can afford. And those are the ones who pay so that everyone gets to enjoy it and use it. And that's how it should be. You can also leave a review if you prefer, I love the reviews and I will definitely read them out here. That's it all all of this is at naked with nate.com. You can also leave a voice note which I think is right if you go to naked with nate.com. And you'll see at the top there's a little say hello button, click that menu item. And you will see you can leave a voice note. You have to be on Safari browser on an iPhone. But otherwise from your desktop. And I'm not sure about Android. But anyway, that's all techie stuff. The whole thing I just really want to say is You're amazing. I hope to hear more from you. I love hearing from you. I can't wait to bring you our next episode. Thank you to Kate McGill. For this. Be sure to go to the show notes. Check out all her goodness and her amazing podcast. And for now. Thank you for getting naked with Nate. You are awesome. I am Nate And I'll see you back here next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Even in impossible grief
it is natural to laugh

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“No matter how crazy dark your brain can get…you always come out of it…it’s always gonna be ok again” – @katemcgill Click To Tweet

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